If Someone Admits To Cheating ... Should His Record Be Removed ...?

Question

http://www.sirbacon.org/4membersonly/docellis.htm

I'm just curious ... I have absolutely nothing against Dock ... so don't take this personal.

Should records in Baseball be removed if someone is proven to have cheated/used drugs that are banned?

Thanks and thumbs up to all who answer ... just give me time to get back and read the answers.

Answer 1

No. Statistics are a record of what happened on the diamonds, with no greater purpose to serve than that of being accurate. Those who try to rewrite history to serve their own agenda are pursuing purposes that are dubious at best, and invariably deceitful.



Baseball does not and never has changed the historical records except in well-vetted instances of oversight, omission, or typographical error.



That some like or, more commonly, do not like how history sorted out, is simply too darn bad, and no basis for imposing mendacious emendation.





And, just to support the point with specifics:



1919 World Series -- results, all stats still on the books.



Norm Cash -- 1961 season still on the books.



Graig Nettles -- still on the books.



Gaylord Perry -- still on the books, plaque peacefully accreting its patina in upstate New York.



Sammy Sosa -- take yer pick, but his career is still on the books.



Hal Chase, Pete Rose, the individual Black Sox, etc. -- all still on the books.



Because "the books" here are nothing but a record of what they did between the white lines.



As for honoraria -- well, reviewing and possibly revoking those would depend upon the sanctioning body, but I haven't heard (ever) even the lightest whisper that the BBWAA might reconsider the various MVPs and CYAs handed out to the likes of Caminiti, Rodriguez, Bonds, Kent, Clemens, Sosa, Gagne, etc.



Though Rawlings really should take away Palmeiro's 1999 AL 1B Gold Glove. He played 28 games at first that year. C'mon.



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re/Ellis...



Known instances of a player taking the field while using LSD: one.

Result of that player's game: pitched a no-hitter, a rare and highly desirable achievement.

Conclusion: LSD is a performance-enhancing drug.

QED.

Answer 2

I'd have to say No.

First of all, there's no precedent. Dock Ellis used illegal LSD, and his no-hitter still counts.

Norm Cash admitted to using a corked bat for the 1961 season, when he won the Batting Title, and he's still listed as the record-holder. And then do you just remove the records for when they cheated, or for their entire careers?

Second, won't you have to adjust 'other' records as well? If you get rid of McGwire's home runs, you'll have to lower Greg Maddux's ERA, and so on.



EDIT- Also, what about all those players who ILLEGALY took amphetamines in the 1980s-2000s? If you take amphetamines w/o a prescription, you're breaking the same law as those who took steroids. So, you'd have to erase Mike Schmidt's records, for one thing (he admitted to using amphetamines).

In fact, amphetamines are listed HIGHER on the list of 'banned substances' than steroids are by the gov't (most anabolic steroids are Class III; amphetamines are Class II. Class I is the stuff that is never legal under any circumstance, then the Classes get less and less severe, with less severe penalties).

Answer 3

Jose Canseco is an admitted cheater - yet his 40-40 MVP season in 1988 is still without an asterisk.



They aren't doing it, but I guess deleting records reached cheating would be the proper thing to do (say bye to 73/761 homeruns-we wish).

Answer 4

I feel they should if they used PED's, like Bonds, Clemens and all them (if they ever do admit it)



I feel Dock deserves his record. Anyone who can trip on acid, and come away with a No-hitter, is okay in my book.

Answer 5

No. What happens on the field happened.. you can't go back and undo it.



And for every player that gets caught, there are 100 that don't.

Answer 6

Dock Ellis didn't really cheat because he didn't take steroids or anything.